Nuklear Winter '68 Q&A

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Re: Nuklear Winter '68 Q&A

Postby josta59 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:58 am

Cool, thanks! I hadn't thought of that. It's not like Tank on Tank, where a hill is just a hill in one or two hexes.
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Re: Nuklear Winter '68 Q&A

Postby josta59 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:23 am

Another question: The biggest reason I got from Vassal gamers for why LnL games won't work for PbP was the mechanics of opportunity fire. According to the rules (5.2), if my unit isn't finished and an opponent fires on me while on the move, I can fire back, and my opportunity fire should be resolved before their moving fire. I'm not sure how that will work for us, since I won't know I've been attacked until my opponent's turn is over.

Have you come up with a way to deal with opp fire, Em? Maybe if a player fires while on the move, you can PM the defender or even post it in the game thread so they can have an opportunity to defend themselves. Sorry if that was your plan all along.
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Re: Nuklear Winter '68 Q&A

Postby Whiterook » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:44 pm

josta59 wrote:Another question: The biggest reason I got from Vassal gamers for why LnL games won't work for PbP was the mechanics of opportunity fire. According to the rules (5.2), if my unit isn't finished and an opponent fires on me while on the move, I can fire back, and my opportunity fire should be resolved before their moving fire. I'm not sure how that will work for us, since I won't know I've been attacked until my opponent's turn is over.

Have you come up with a way to deal with opp fire, Em? Maybe if a player fires while on the move, you can PM the defender or even post it in the game thread so they can have an opportunity to defend themselves. Sorry if that was your plan all along.


I'm not sure I totally understood the flow of that first paragraph, LOL....but I believe I get the gist.

Please allow me preface with an opinion: The thing I HATED about White Star Rising was the concept of Opportunity Fire, where the opponent was sitting like a turkey at a crap shoot (defenseless, for all intents and purposes). It makes no reasonable sense to me that you move an inch and BLAM, with the only option available being to hope for a miss (IGNORE, in WSR game terms); and then survive to keep moving and BLAM again. The 'Ignore' was a complished by a dice roll against the attacked units' ARMOR rating and defensive terrain bonus. So, the Opportunity Firer fires at the active formation (enemy) with a dice roll and result; followed immediately by the active formation (the enemy unit that moved into Opportunity Fire) rolling a defensive-type attempt to IGNORE a hit through a dice roll and result of Ignore. In other words, each side had a dice roll and result to in one case, hit....and the other case, ignore a hit.

It is essentially the same with NW68' ....but with two major differences.....

1. The attacker (Opportunity Firing Unit) and the active formation unit that moved into Opportunity Fire (the Defender against Ops Fire) are all calculated into one dice roll and result determine the amount of hits (if any). That is done by the formula:

AV (FP + bonus) - DV (Armor + bonus) = number of hits

Broken down as.....FP (the Fire Power rating of the units' inherent firepower or support weapon) + 2d6 dice roll result + any bonuses (e.g., CO/2iC, or Group Fire bonus) defensible terrain - The defending units' Armor rating + any bonuses (e.g., defensive terrain, entrenchment a, concealment) = the number of hits on the Ops Fired on defender.

So instead a dice roll for hits and a dice roll for ignores giving the total hits on the defender (White Star Rising); you have just one dice roll in the AV of the Opportunity Firing unit(s) with ratings and modifiers giving the total number of hits on the defender (NW68).

This will be resolved in the game the same way Ops Fire was resolved in the White Star Rising game.....on the movement of the active formation, a picture will be posted with the movement intentions displayed on the pic; at which the enemy will have an opportunity to declare Ops Fire.

2. The biiiiiiiiiig difference in NW68 (to WSR).....and what I believe fixed what pissed me off so much....is MOVING FIRE. If the Active Formation is conducting a Movement Fire, the same method of posting a picture with the movement intentions (and firing intentions!) will be done, giving the enemy the opportunity to declare Ops Fire at the hex of choice. If Ops Fire is declared, it will (per the rules) be resolved first; followed immediately by the Movement Fire of the Ops Fired-on unit; with results applied at the conclusion of the attacker (unit Ops Fired on).

Basically, the active formation commander will tell me where he/she wants to move and what they are firing at; I post a SitRep pic; the defender opts to or not Ops Fire and at what hex if so. I will know the full extent of both sides intents to conclusion of that Move, Fire, Ops Fire; and carry out the orders.

If that doesn't make sense...let the next post try to clarify, so hold on until I finish the next post! :D
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Re: Nuklear Winter '68 Q&A

Postby Whiterook » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:00 pm

josta59 wrote:
Another question: The biggest reason I got from Vassal gamers for why LnL games won't work for PbP was the mechanics of opportunity fire.


Well...the answer to this first one is simple.....They Are Idiots! ....otherwise, they'd be members here :D , have seen the White Star Rising game and how it worked just fine, and put their membership where their mal-conceived theories are. PLEASE....share that with them and have them open their minds to the possibilities of MWF!

josta59 wrote:According to the rules (5.2), if my unit isn't finished and an opponent fires on me while on the move, I can fire back,



You are not really firing back.....you are conducting a Movement Fire (moving as the active formation at up to half SPEED rating, and firing at a reduced effectiveness), in which you are the ATTACKER. That is a separate resolution all to itself. It will have the full formula applied for AV -DV = number of hits.

The opponent is a non-active formation (the DEFENDER to your attack, or neighboring friendly unit helping the defender not get his ass kicked), and has the chance to OPPORTUNITY FIRE, which is a separate resolution all to it's self. It will have the full formula applied for AV -DV = number of hits.

Ops Fire will resolve first; Movement Fire will resolve second; affects will be applied.


josta59 wrote:.....and my opportunity fire should be resolved before their moving fire.


yup!

josta59 wrote:I'm not sure how that will work for us, since I won't know I've been attacked until my opponent's turn is over.

Have you come up with a way to deal with opp fire, Em? Maybe if a player fires while on the move, you can PM the defender or even post it in the game thread so they can have an opportunity to defend themselves. Sorry if that was your plan all along.


clear as mud?
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Re: Nuklear Winter '68 Q&A

Postby josta59 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:25 pm

Ok, thanks a lot for addressing this. I think that's basically what I said, but I am embarrassingly drunk out of my brain at the moment...thank God I got the kids to bed without any injuries...
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Re: Nuklear Winter '68 Q&A

Postby Whiterook » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:44 pm

Ha, I hear 'ya....I wish I were drunk, LOL! I've had a long day and I'm pretty tuckered out so, I wasn't entirely sure I was reading what you were trying to say, but I think we managed to get to the same place. Please note: The all-caps above were not meant in any way as *screaming*, as is its general connotation on the 'net....I was just highlighting the most important thoughts; and the questions are excellent questions, and I appreciate your bringing them up.

The latter is along the lines of why I put up the board on dissecting game rules.....all rules can be misleading or confusing at times (and occasionally, in total :shock:

At the 'idiots' statement, that was partly in jest; but partly in truth, too.....unfortunately my perception of gamers who make such far reaching, and far flung statements declarations is a bit biased that they are ignorant of seeing *outside-the-box*, and the craft that is Wargaming outside of normal convention; and am rather non-tolerant of their unwillingness to see the forest for the trees. I remember PMing with a fella at another forum I had just joined, and he insisted he wouldn't join our forum because we were too Flames of War-centric. I thought, '....what a smug bastard'....if you're a FoW hater, don't dis a site just because its represented. Idiot.
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