Lock 'N Load: WHITE STAR RISING - Q&A Thread

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Re: WHITE STAR RISING - Q&A Thread

Postby Whiterook » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:21 pm

Frank wrote:Don`t you just hate it when people actually read the rules :roll: .


Rules? This game has rules???? :shock:

actually, the rules are some of the easiest to digest that I've read. Still, I found my share of mistakes in the rules....and gray areas.
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Re: WHITE STAR RISING - Q&A Thread

Postby Whiterook » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:01 pm

The question was brought up, and I asked the designer the following:

So if a German StuG III moves one hex and into the LOS/Range of twp American M4A1s in Hex A, an M18 in Hex B, and an M5A1 in Hex C....

Only one of these American units (A, B, or C) can Op Fire at the StuG?

Each unit (A, B, C) would not each get one shot?

And in hexes with multiple units, only one unit can fire?

If yes....what is the rationale?


The answer from Mark H. Walker was:

Yes, only one unit can Op Fire. Of course that's per hex. How many would you recommend? 2,3,17...as you can see it is a very slippery slope. :-)

He's got a point!

Another answer, provided by Mark Mitchell at BGG:

Yes, when a moving unit enters a hex, only one enemy unit can Opportunity Fire at it. The rationale? I don't know, I suppose that this keeps Opportunity Fire from being too powerful. That way the game does not bog down with one side (or both sides) lying in wait, while the other side gets punished for doing something. Also, the activation system can let one side Opportunity Fire, and then fire again before the enemy has a chance to respond in kind. It’s give-and-take, with playability being the goal, IMHO :D

Another great comeback.

There's part of me that thinks in real-life....if you have a bunch of platoons with eyes on the prize, let 'er rip! But in wargame terms, that may not be plausible. I can certainly see Mark H. Walkers' point of it being a slippery slope. But Mark Mitchell brought the strongest answer to me in stating, "....That way the game does not bog down with one side (or both sides) lying in wait". I mean, can you imagine the extra carnage in a scenario like the one being played (Noville) at present? I wouldn't be surprised if this came out during playtesting by Mark's crew.
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Re: WHITE STAR RISING - Q&A Thread

Postby Frank » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:37 am

The limited Op Fire might not seem logical, but speaking as someone who has been on the receiving end I think any more would make it too powerful, or, possibly that is just because I am used to games where a side has definite phases,: morale ~ move ~ shoot. It does seem that a side that is defending does have a significant advantage.

frank
"Some believe that it is only great power that can hold evil in check.But that is not what I have found, it is the small everyday acts of normal folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
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Re: WHITE STAR RISING - Q&A Thread

Postby TRDG » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:49 am

I understand what they mean but, its just seems a bit silly for me that a Sherman 3 hexes away can shoot at an enemy unit, while another unit in the hex right next to said enemy unit can't shoot in OP at the same time.... Kind of takes me "out" of my game mind and into game mechanics, LOL

I think something like ANY unit within x number of hexes can shoot, those out of that range, can't, or something like that for OP fire.

I hear you frank, just imagine if I had to move/attack/capture you with what I have. You ahve the perfect longer ranged and upguuned units to just smoke me.

But I have the terrain advantage as well as no real pressure to move anywhere I don't want or half to.

I think in the end it is all scenario dependant, some may work better with these kinds of rules than others.

I'd be VERY curious to see what the designers think is an exactly EVEN game scenario and force list for their rules!!

Cheers

Tom

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Re: WHITE STAR RISING - Q&A Thread

Postby Whiterook » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:02 pm

I don't know....I keep running this through my head. I think a key is the fact that you can fire again at a moving unit as it moves from hex to hex, thereby getting several shots in on the same unit (just one shot per hex, is all); I do believe that happened last round if memory serves.

Where it can get dicey (pun intended) is when a unit moved out of LOS and one hex into LOS and stopping....if yoiu have a bunch of enemy units with eyes on the prize, ythey only get that one and only shot. That can seem non-logical from the standpoint of in the *real world*, "....WTH is up with those guys on my flank....why aren't they firing?!?" But then I come back to, in game terms, it would be "Slaughter on 10th Avenue" time....the carnage would tip the game into the rediculous.

I myself personally feel that when talking wargaming, what you could do in real life may not always translate into the gamingboard environment. I hear said over and over again, in the game design corners, that you have to have *playability* factored in; and in fact, can be one of the mmost daunting aspects of designing a game (I know....been there!). I'd be more curious to know if this ever came out during playtesting the game before market....what were the challenges faced by Ops Fire by the players.

If you asked my honest opinion, I think the game is better with the rules as written than without....but that doesn't asuage reality. Then again, what is reality?
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Re: WHITE STAR RISING - Q&A Thread

Postby TRDG » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:48 am

Can ya go over the assault combat please General, Infrantry on Armour......... :D

Cheers, thanks!!

Tom

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Re: WHITE STAR RISING - Q&A Thread

Postby Whiterook » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:01 pm

Assault Combat:

You assault enemy units by moving int their hex, and is immediately resolved.

Think of the units moving into the hex as the Attackers;
The units occupying the hex are the Defenders.


:!: Attacker rolls the number of 1d6 = ASSAULT FACTOR. Each die rolled > the attacker's ASSAULT TO HIT number hits the target.

[Hits are not applied yet!]

:!: Defender now counterattacks, rolling the number of 1d6 = ASSAULT FACTOR. Each die rolled > the attacker's ASSAULT TO HIT number hits the target.

:!: Both sides then resolve hits. All of a players units in the assault hex must receive one hit before any receive two; and all must receive two hits before any are eliminated. [Odd numbers are randomly determined as to which unit takes the hit by the Gamemaster]


* If the DEFENDER is eliminated, the ATTACKER remains in the hex.
* If the DEFENDER received more hits than the ATTACKER, the DEFENDER RETREATS one hex/ATTACKER remains in hex
* If DEFENDER is not eliminate, and receives more < HITS than ATTACKER, then the ATTACKER must retreat t the hex from which it entered.



NOTE: If either side included HQs, possible HQ hits are resolved as per 1.3.2.2 HQ Combat.
Example...If the units the HQ is stacked with receive a hit, I rol 1d6; on a result of 1 the HQ is reduced (or eliminated if already reduced).



* If forced to retreat, the DEFENDER must attempt to retreat in a path directly away from the hex from which the ATTACKER entered the assault hex. The DEFENDER may not retreat into....

A. An enemy occupied hex
B. A hex adjacent to an enemy unit (other than the stack which it just assaulted the DEFENDER)

* If he DEFENDER cannot retreat legally, it is eliminated!


NOTE: If assaulting units of either side include an HQ, the HQ Leadership increases a single units' Assault Factor.


* Once all is resolved, all units are marked OPS COMPLETE

NOTE: Units who have an asterix following the Assault Factor on the counter MAY NOT INITIATE ASSAULT (move into an enemy hex); however, they may counter-attack. Units without Asssault Factor may not attack or counter-attack during assault combat...they just take it in the chin and hope they survive!

NOTE: If the DEFENDERS are Disrupted when the attackers entered the hex, their Assault To Hit number for the counter-attack is REDUCED by 6.

NOTE: On the counter bottom right....the large number is the ASSAULT FACTOR; and the small number is the TO HIT number.
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Re: WHITE STAR RISING - Q&A Thread

Postby TRDG » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:49 am

General

Can you go through both types of assaults specifically, per some of my questions in the main game thread please?

Also since assaulting involves movement one can do OP fire, right?

Next (LOL) what is the reasoning behind an HQ being destroyed then get some "magic" wheels" to insta "move" back to their unit even if it is way beyond their movement rate......??

I'm sure game mechanics, but still, ya know??

Germans perhaps as they were good at ad hock stuff perhaps.

Cheers

Tom

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Re: WHITE STAR RISING - Q&A Thread

Postby Frank » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:42 am

I was thinking the same, i saw my Co right at the back of the board and thought that was it, I would be taking morale checks for the rest of the game.
"Some believe that it is only great power that can hold evil in check.But that is not what I have found, it is the small everyday acts of normal folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
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Re: WHITE STAR RISING - Q&A Thread

Postby TRDG » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:12 am

That was a strat on my part, sort of like in FoW where one can "pick out" sometimes each others HQ platoon then lay the hammer on them.

No idea what would happen besides the out of command and it would "come bacK' to you at some point.

Cheers, did you have other orders you could post if Em does'nt get to this before you leave? Or would Chris take over while your gone?

Tom


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