Command Decision 15mm M36 MGG Tank Destroyer

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Chrisd
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Re: Command Decision 15mm M36 MGG Tank Destroyer

Postby Chrisd » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:48 am

now from what i understand 1/100 scale is equal to 15mm. and in that review the people who said it think that POC stuff might be actually 1/85th scale which would be slightly larger than 1/100th but smaller than 1/72nd. Now in my humble opinion (IMHO) for you techno nerds you might be onto something regarding FoW stuff but what I think where they maybe off is in the scale figures of the infantry.. especially when it comes to vehichles for instance my loader and commander for my S307 with the 40Pak Anti Tank. The men are cut off at the knees to fit them inside the vehicle. yet in the M3 with 75mm the US guys are not.. hmmmm

You know what Em you and I should open up our own miniature company and declare war on BF/FoW :P
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Re: Command Decision 15mm M36 MGG Tank Destroyer

Postby Whiterook » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:56 pm

A favorite topic:

:lol:

Yes, the problem with scales given in mm (as in 12mm, 15mm, 28mm, etc) rather than ratios (as in 1/72, 1/100, etc) is the bewildering array of possible answers.

Lots of people will tell you that 15mm is the same as 1/100 while some may say it's closer to 1/107 or maybe even 1/110, and then you have Avalon Hill saying (in their Axis & Allies Miniatures Rules) that their figures are 15mm or 1/120 in size.

And of course you have the age-old discussion, is the company making that particular mini measuring from feet to eye level or feet to top of head?

It is because of this age-old dilema that the scale of 15mm tends to range from 1/100 to 1/120.

Bored yet? No! Great, I'll go on.

To go from scale to ratio or back again, you need to know a magic number (there are two actually). Those two numbers are:

1610 – if you want eye-level measurements, or
1730 – if you want top of head measurements.

Those numbers come from the height, in mm, of an "average" man. The lower number is 5'3" to his eyes, the larger number is 5'8" to the top of his head.

Now, take your magic number of choice and do the following:

MN / Ratio = scale in mm
MN / Scale = ratio

Going with 15mm as our test case, we end up with:

1/107 if eye-level, or
1/115 if top of head.

Ratios are a way of saying that one of something is equal to X of something. Again, with 15mm being the sample, then 1" should equal anywhere from 107 inches (8'11") up to 115 inches (9'7") in game terms.

Of course, this is all based off the idea that an average soldier is about 5'8" tall to top of head.

The real answer to your question – given what you stated – is that there is no answer. Companies make figures hopefully to a set scale and if they do a good job the figs are close to accurate portrayals of actual equipment and such. But the GAME these may be used in has no such restriction, and often does not state what their scale is.

Just because you are using 15mm scale figures in a game doesn't mean the game scale is anything like 15mm in nature. Yes, the buildings and other terrain are hopefully somewhat close, but the ground scale . . . no way.

How could one justify that a rifle has a range of 12" when in 15mm scale that's barely over 100'. Or a tank having a 36" range. On a typical 4' x 6' gaming table just about any 20th century gunpowder weapon would be able to easily cover the whole tabletop.

So while the minis and to some degree the terrain might be to a set scale, the ground scale is often a huge fudge factor.

1/96 scale is 1 scale inch equals 8 feet
1/100 scale is 1 scale inch equals 8.33 feet
1/108 scale is 1 scale inch equals 9 feet
1/120 scale is 1 scale inch equals 10 feet

Use whatever you decide 15mm is :mrgreen:
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Re: Command Decision 15mm M36 MGG Tank Destroyer

Postby Chrisd » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:33 am

ow my head hurts now...

so then the soldiers that are made by BF are actually just a little over 8 feet in height.. no wonder they can't fit in those vehicles without having limbs removed...

I must say that it was actually well done their Em. where did you get that stuff? And when do we lay the ground work for our business we can call it Tin Can General Miniatures :D
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Re: Command Decision 15mm M36 MGG Tank Destroyer

Postby Whiterook » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:52 pm

Chrisd wrote:ow my head hurts now...


You're welcome! :mrgreen:

Chrisd wrote:so then the soldiers that are made by BF are actually just a little over 8 feet in height.. no wonder they can't fit in those vehicles without having limbs removed...


I always viewed Flames of War infantry as 'Artistic License' at it's finest: The fact that the AFV's are tricked out to the max in detail, yet the infantry look like someting out of Scooby Doo is, I think, brilliant marketing in the fact that they pass it off and people gobble the stuff up! Brilliant! :twisted:

Chrisd wrote:I must say that it was actually well done their Em. where did you get that stuff? And when do we lay the ground work for our business we can call it Tin Can General Miniatures :D


These concepts have been, unfortunately, beatened to death around popular Grognard forums for quite awhile now. I did a lot of digging when Axis & Allies Miniatures had their epiphany and decided to make their 15mm miniatures...well....actually 15mm. Seeing that they just rendered a good quantity of my investment 'Liliputian', I was a tad miffed. I found some decent references to ratio vs. scale, but by far one of the best examples was from this guy named Steve at some forum I can't remember now....I kept his article simply because he really brought good formulas to the table. :ugeek:
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Re: Command Decision 15mm M36 MGG Tank Destroyer

Postby Chrisd » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:01 pm

ah i see.. however dear sir you didn't answer the more important question when do we lay the ground work for Tincan General Mini's and Strategy Wargames :)
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Re: Command Decision 15mm M36 MGG Tank Destroyer

Postby Whiterook » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:14 pm

Who gets the secretary?
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Re: Command Decision 15mm M36 MGG Tank Destroyer

Postby Chrisd » Sun May 01, 2011 10:04 am

you can have her
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Re: Command Decision 15mm M36 MGG Tank Destroyer

Postby Frizzenspark » Sun May 01, 2011 1:34 pm

In this argument over the benefits of CD vs FoW an important thing to consider is the price/quantity variance. Nordalia declared the CD the overall winner in the PzIV H Bake-off.

I bought a whole bunch (12) of the CD PzIV H models for alot less than I could've purchased the FoW versions..., as I have no other PzIV Hs in my collection, the size difference is of no relevance.

With the recent price increase of FoW products in the US CD miniatures are more of a bargain.
"Why piddle about making porridge with artillery and then send men to drown themselves in it for a hundred yards of No Man's land? Tanks mean advances of miles at a time, not yards.".
Maj-Gen Percy Hobart (1885-1957)79th Armoured Division

Chrisd
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Re: Command Decision 15mm M36 MGG Tank Destroyer

Postby Chrisd » Mon May 02, 2011 11:40 am

well as it stands.. FoW for me is going on the back burner. Battletech is out and those are what I am going to be working on. I can even run a campaign too :)

I see your point Friz and your right. I just wish they would use plastic instead I think it would be a lot cheaper.
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Re: Command Decision 15mm M36 MGG Tank Destroyer

Postby gibbs » Tue May 03, 2011 2:44 am

Whiterook wrote:A couple close-ups of one of the miniatures.....I chose to place the machine guns in diffferent positions on the three, and I especially liked the way the one pictured at the bottom turned out!

DSC00926.JPG


DSC00927.JPG




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