My Panzerfaust only fires one shot. The Final thread.

1905 - 1945 AD

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Re: My Panzerfaust only fires one shot. The Final thread.

Postby MAGNA » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:09 am

russian side hill.jpg


A shot from the Russian side of the board. Middle centre are the SU-100's which are now being targeted by the
jagdtiger since the two SU-122's (further left) are disordered.

Behind them - wait for it - yes - more infantry. We are still trying to blunt the infantry who got across the river let
alone another horde. One Russian section bravely took on and killed the 105 Stug and the concrete bunker
to it's left suffered the same fate. Now there is nothing between the Russians and the Hetzers / Panthers. Oh dear.

The Russian command decided to leave the bunker at the bridge and bypass it although they still suffered from
the HMG. The PAK pillbox further up was also bypassed. Smart really at this stage as the main thing was to get
infantry into the hill town. Most of the original force of Russians has taken large losses though and there is a good
chance they will fail morale and bolt. There is one odd thing though. One of the original companies has four or
five stands left out of thirteen and yet they have made it all the way across the board to be one action from the
church on the hill. Amazing considering the fire they have taken.

Our units on the right side of the hill town reordered nicely in their phase and were promptly hit be a Katyusha
barrage which suppressed / disordered them all again.

Our artillery hit it's straps again and accounted for a lot of Russian infantry. We managed to get rid of around
one and a half companies of Russian troops in less than two turns but need to do that consistently. Colonel Bob
has done well so far as artillery needs 9 or 10 to kill depending on type and cover.

The Russians are still using their artillery to lay smoke in front of the JagdTiger which has saved a lot of our troops
since smoke doesn't explode very well.


before.jpg




after.jpg



See if you can spot the difference. Probably two or three moves to go in this one.
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Re: My Panzerfaust only fires one shot. The Final thread.

Postby MAGNA » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:38 am

Well now. After the forum move and Christmas / New Year, this thread had to be redone. My thanks to
TRDG for shifting it and now I've redone the text etc.

There is still more to the saga and some more pics. so here we go….



german view close.jpg



Another view on the right as the Russians get closer. Our troops in the wooden bunker came out and
slowed the Russians on this flank but couldn't do much in the centre.


getting desperate.jpg




The centre. Russian troops still came forward and the German Panzer grenadiers took a fearful toll
with three Russian companies faltering badly and falling back.


russian close assault.jpg



One brave Russian MG team kept coming though and close combat ensued. They were seen off. It was a
clever move though as it would have been difficult for us if they had got into the church. The town to the
rear of the church was not under enemy observation so we could move backwards and forwards in that
area with impunity. Luckily for us the close combat went the way we hoped.
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Re: My Panzerfaust only fires one shot. The Final thread.

Postby MAGNA » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:40 am

Back to the bush.

On the left the Russian and German forces were getting nowhere. A bit of a stalemate here.


pines close.jpg



A Russian attack was repulsed but neither side got a real advantage as any forward move meant an ambush shot at close
range.


pines stalemate.jpg



The Russian commander tried to break the deadlock by sending a JSU152 into the woods but the ensuing close assault
favoured the German troops in their cover and the JSU died. The pic shows the ugly snouted JSU on the right behind an SU
just before the attempt.



view from left.jpg



Just behind the woods the German troops were also dug in and supported by a PAK 40 251 and two Panzer IV's. This was
where close combat showed it's scary nature. A lone Russian squad raced forward to close combat a Panzer IV. They got there
unscathed but had a poor rating against armour. +1 I think. The Panzer was facing infantry in the open and got a +4. In close
combat both sides roll 1 x D10 for each unit in the battle - always X number of attackers against one defender. Highest roll
wins. If you win by four or more the other side loses a unit. A draw and both sides lose a unit. Scary but not so bad for the
Panzer this time……. except that the German roll was a one and The Russian a ten….ooops. One dead Panzer.

After this the Russians copped exactly the same medicine from a german squad against one of their tanks. A 1 vs a 10. Odd
thing to happen once let alone twice in the same game. Still, Russians could afford it. We could not. The other Panzer didn't
last long and then one of the Hetzers went as well leaving us with a JagdTiger, a Panther, and a Hetzer.

Didn't count up the Russian armour as we didn't have a day to spare…….

Apart from these things the woods and lower town area on our left was basically a done deal.
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Re: My Panzerfaust only fires one shot. The Final thread.

Postby MAGNA » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:43 am

Last chance.

The Russians now had a clear run at the hill town and had a few moves left to take it before their attack was called off.
Night was coming and no one wants to be in hostile territory assaulting a town in the dark with tanks and all that there
type of thing etc and stuff similar to what I made up.


So the scene is now set. A last push against a desperate defence.

The Germans still had a bit up their sleeve though. Mind you it was a very short sleeve. Some invalid troops had been
sent in to help shore up the defence. Bugger that. We put them forward in trenches just outside the left front of the hill
town which proved to be very useful as it stopped the Russian troops in their half tracks from bowling right up to the
edge of our main defence.


The T34's pushed hard now and forced our remaining armour on the left to retreat back over the brow of the hill. If the
Russian tanks wanted us they would have to come over the hill. Now way man, they ain't that crazy.


t34s push.jpg



The T34's push the german armour back.


At the same time Russian infantry moved up in their lend lease M3's and jumped out to assault our invalids. Others
went further forward to get behind the town.


t34 inf push.jpg


Our troops in the trenches did surprisingly well which left our Panzer Grenadiers in good condition to throw the Russians back. The German artillery was down to it's last gasp and made it's presence felt with more Russians disappearing.


No way the Russians were going over the brow of the hill against the Panther and Hetzer ? Wrong again.
Two JSII's and two T34's roared straight over to close combat our tanks. Once again our tank fire was bad and the close combat saw the Hetzer back away disordered and the Panther go up in flames.


js2 panther.jpg


The four Russian tanks can be seen on the left just past the town with the Panther in the flames. This opened up our flank and forced us to move the JagdTiger back and around to face the problem.

Perhaps it was good fortune but the Russians decided to close in on the town with the JSII's and some other T34's. The T34's involved in the close combat roared on but could not get on the Jagdtigers flank because of a small hill. By this time we had also moved infantry to cover the beast and to the edges of the town on the left.

All the troops in front of the town had been thrown back or were disordered so it now came down to the Russian units from the armoured cars supported by tanks. The tanks made short work of our half tracks and a mobile inf gun but they lost as did the Russian infantry when it came to getting through our Grenadiers. Both sides had losses here but our infantry only had one. The Russians lost a couple of tanks and some infantry. The JagdTiger had accounted for the JSU 122's
down at the bridge before removed it and had also got rid of two SU 85's and one SU 100.

It all came down to the next turn. Our aim was to fall back further into the rubble of the town to get ambush shots at any enemy unit who tried to follow. Some panzer grenadiers were disordered which affects their movement / morale roll but the whole unit was in good shape and the commander was nearby to add. Roll a three or better and they can regroup then fall back ready to inflict yet another mighty……. what ? It's a two. I rolled a two. Ok. Change of plan. The Grenadiers
don't regroup and they stay where they are. Just great.

The Russians had problems of their own. Even though most of their infantry rolled well for morale many were facing away due to having bolted earlier. This put many of them at two moves away.

Time for the JSII's to roll forward to meet the T34's although they still couldn't get to the JagdTiger because they had literally run into a wall. Rock that is. The paddock behind the town would require breaching so no help for the infantry there.

The JSII's and remaining JSU were way down near the lower town so our plan to threaten that flank could be said to have worked.

In the final phase the Russian infantry couldn't get into the church and couldn't really get a foothold in the town so it was all over.

Although technically the German side won by a narrow margin we - the Germans- thought of it more as a narrow escape rather than a narrow victory.

All in all an interesting game which shows that unbalanced sides can make for a better game. There is no real way of knowing you will win just because you have more stuff.

MAIN FACTORS.

For the Germans you would think the JagdTiger as it saw off somewhere in the region of 14 or 15 enemy tank units. Not bad and probably difficult for another unit to match since it was in it's element. Sit there and keep firing. No need to move for most of the game because no one could get close enough to hurt it anyway. Not for most of the game at least.

The artillery really did save our bacon. We also had mortars to use and mobile onboard artillery. This took a big toll on the Russian infantry with no shot back. The Russian artillery didn't really match ours but their numbers of onboard units made up for it. The Tiger also helped here as the Russian artillery
was used for smoke for nearly the whole game.

Our other tanks were surprisingly annoying. We just couldn't get good rolls with them at all.

The Volksturm. Although we didn't think they would be any use at all they managed to make a nuisance of themselves for just about the whole game with many being in action the whole time and surviving. One notable was the infantry gun which was dug in to our left of the lower town and slowly retreated back through the woods to join and support the Panzer Grenadiers.

Bad placement is always my biggest bugbear. In hindsight I should have put the JagdTiger on the left side of the hill town where it could have fired at the JSII's etc on that side in a decent range bracket. It would still have been able to cover the river and the bridge as well.

The PAK 43's ended up being nearly useless as although they were dug in they were still too vulnerable to artillery and even direct fire. One should have been in the rubble on the right where the JagdTiger was. We had other AT in front of it and it could have waited until absolutely necessary. The other one…. no idea. Perhaps on the left at the rear right of the woods, ready to ambush the flank of the Russian armour as it streamed up the hill. Who knows….


For the Russians. Difficult to say what else you can do when you need to take such difficult objectives. Perhaps a holding force in the town buildings and then ignore the Germans in the woods would have been good. In theory or again, hindsight this is probably right but at the time you need to know what is actually there. Losing the town again and having to turn around to take it back with very big guns up your tailpipe after you turn - not recommended.

Also it was difficult to get across the river for the force on our right. After the river was crossed it was open ground all the way up to the town so nasty no matter what.

Finally though I could not say either side had the easy job. Although we could dig in and ambush our forces were vulnerable to break through. For the Russians they had the lower town which was always going to cost them followed by the woods - same deal.

The upper town was always going to be harder and it proved to be the case. Both sides got badly mauled in the end due mainly to the aggression required for the Russians to keep moving and for the Germans to slow them down.

Big thanks to Mitch, not only did he umpire but he designed the scenario as well. If anyone wants to send me one million dollars (Australian) I'm sure I can get him to do up a couple of scenarios for you…….
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Re: My Panzerfaust only fires one shot. The Final thread.

Postby Frank » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:06 pm

Great report and pics, as I said earlier, the commentry really bought it to life.

I have been on the recieving end of a "Soviet Horde" myself in F O W and pure aggression seems to be a fairly standard Soviet tactic as it was only at the end of the war that they had the training to take on the germans on a level playing field.
"Some believe that it is only great power that can hold evil in check.But that is not what I have found, it is the small everyday acts of normal folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
Gandalf the Grey

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Re: My Panzerfaust only fires one shot. The Final thread.

Postby MAGNA » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:22 am

Thanks Frank. Couldn't put all the original posts back in but yours is an important point.

The Battlefront rules from fire and fury used for our WWII games really let the different 'styles' of
combat come through.

The rules are unusual in that they do not allow a unit to fire and move in the same turn. I had never
played that way before we used these rules and it seemed odd at first or even wrong.

As a realism test it passes with flying colours as players must decide which units will fire and which ones
will move. This means you have to get units in position to support other units which will be in close combat
so you can disorder enemy units and weaken them first. Much closer to the real situation as it stops the
big rush forward with all units followed by the big melee at the end of the turn.

The Russian players used this well when crossing the river by shooting their tanks and MG's at our troops
in the trenches. Many were disordered which left them vulnerable to close assault. Those that survived
disordered were then in danger for the movement / morale roll as they lost 2 to 4 off the dice to reorder.
Added to that they lost the same amount when firing.

In other words the rules promote thinking first and using fire and movement properly rather than having a
dice off.

The move phase for each side is well thought out too;

1 Artillery (suppress / disorder / blow away units to slow attackers or weaken a defence spot)
2. Air attack if available ( same use)
3. Offensive fire. Any unit that fires cannot move.
4. Movement. Any unit that didn't fire can roll to move (good order - 2 actions, or reorder and get one
action or maybe stay in place, bad can be stay in place in bad order or even fall back -
really bad is bolt for it. Important as you cannot rely on a unit taking losses and still
racing forward regardless.
5. Defensive fire. Enemy units basically get a shot at anything in range.
6. Close combat for any units attacking opponents to their front within 1 inch.

Simple really with one sheet of info needed once you are familiar with the rules. The sheet has the modifiers
for fire and movement such as cover, terrain, and observation. Range and movement for each unit is on a card
system with the units main capabilities and armour so you get the cards out for the units being used and
disregard the rest. Simple and effective as there is no need to look up long lists of units on sheets etc.

After the move as above you switch to the other side and they have the same sequence. When both sides
have completed the sequence one turn is over. All in all a lot of complexity but because of the system used
it is simple to operate.

This is all at company level with morale checks etc being rolled for one unit (company) at a time. We have
played these rules a lot now and the variation is there without the rules really getting in the way.

The card sets available cover the whole war with specific sets for the Western Desert, Western Europe, the
Eastern Front, and the Pacific. Each model of each vehicle is shown with the years in use , eg 1941-42.

The movement and ranges are set for 15mm scale. We use 1/72 stuff but it doesn't seem to be a problem
using the same measurements.

It's easy enough to have a couple of battalions of infantry and large numbers of vehicle units using these
rules but you won't get through a game as quickly as you will in some other sets.

One thing I do like is the fact that you don't get a defensive roll. If someone fires at you and fires high
enough you are cactus. That's the way it is and you may get a minus when you fire for cover or for the
armour of an enemy but it rewards getting to the right position/s and backing up units.

So there it is. These are the best rules I have used for this level. For those who have used other rules
and want to progress further than the thud and blunder / nitty gritty detail to a more interesting way of
playing this era I can't recommend them highly enough.
My get up and go never got here in the first place

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Re: My Panzerfaust only fires one shot. The Final thread.

Postby Frank » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:57 pm

It does look an interesting system, I will have to see if any of the guys at our club play it.
"Some believe that it is only great power that can hold evil in check.But that is not what I have found, it is the small everyday acts of normal folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
Gandalf the Grey


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